and you know i'm qualified for this job to be the head of the pentagon, defense secretary. it was almost like he was stunned by it. your thoughts. >> i think you're right. i think it was very personal. i was stunned by it, too. especially the way mccain kept pursuing it and pursuing it. clearly, john wanted chuck to say yes, i was wrong and you were right. and of course the verdict of history, as hagel tried to say, is still out on that. and frankly, in my view as a soldier, the surge had almost nothing to do with the actual increase in american troops. what it had to do was the coincidence of a number of things that were already moving in iraq. not least of which was the awakening. and it had to do with very frankly a general by the name of david petraeus taking advantage of this in order to enhance his own reputation. and as far as i'm concerned, the increase in troops had nothing to do with the change in the situation in iraq except that it got a bunch of them killed, as senator hagel was careful to point out. >> and that is paralleling his opening comments, which you ta